Curse

Selket · Jun 25, 2008, 12:38 AM // 00:38

The reason why Shadow Form needs to be nerfed is the fact that there's nothing else that's comparable in steady income. Simply put, if you're not doing it you're easily missing out on massive amounts of money that could be made.

That's the real problem, its similar to the original 55 monk issue.

Trinity Fire Angel · Jun 25, 2008, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selket

The reason why Shadow Form needs to be nerfed is the fact that there's nothing else that's comparable in steady income. Simply put, if you're not doing it you're easily missing out on massive amounts of money that could be made.

That's the real problem, its similar to the original 55 monk issue.

read my post. money is an illusion. it doesn;t exist. monsters drop gold on the ground... it;s not like the federal reserve who have to issue bonds in order to print more of it. it;s endless.

go farm something else? ie. learn2HA or GVG and make 100k faction per day. it;s faster wealth generation than farming ectoesz

Selket · Jun 25, 2008, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel

read my post. money is an illusion. it doesn;t exist. monsters drop gold on the ground... it;s not like the federal reserve who have to issue bonds in order to print more of it. it;s endless.

go farm something else? ie. learn2HA or GVG and make 100k faction per day. it;s faster wealth generation than farming ectoesz

It doesn't matter if there's an infinate generation of money, what.

Farm something else that generates less income? Why would I do that?

HA's rewards have always been about luck, there's no real average amount made. True GvG rewards come from ATs, which require 7 other people, and only occur 3 times a day, again less money generation.

100k faction per day is only 100k~, which is still less than 50-75 ectos a day.

So everything you mentioned generates less money, so again you'd be missing out on money if you're doing anything but doing SF UW. Nothing else compares.

Trinity Fire Angel · Jun 25, 2008, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selket

It doesn't matter if there's an infinate generation of money, what.

Farm something else that generates less income? Why would I do that?

HA's rewards have always been about luck, there's no real average amount made. True GvG rewards come from ATs, which require 7 other people, and only occur 3 times a day, again less money generation.

100k faction per day is only 100k~, which is still less than 50-75 ectos a day.

So everything you mentioned generates less money, so again you'd be missing out on money if you're doing anything but doing SF UW. Nothing else compares.

it;s only money. not even real money. it doesn;t matter. money is nothing.

you know.. it;s a virtual economy. if the price of ecto's goes down, then there is less wealth in the community, so therefore, prices should actually go down. ie. someone selling kuunavang for 100K + 50e will now have to sell for 100K because no one will have enough money becase ectos will be only 1k. get my drift?

countries do it all the time.. they raise interest rates so people with loans will not spend all their money.. therefore less wealth in the community and hence keep inflation and lower prices.

think about it logically. if price of ectos go down... then price of item X will also go down.

Age · Jun 25, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Evidently not. Please don't try and disprove what's been going on since the beginning of GW:EN, and was actually possible before GW:EN.

Just because you came to the game in 05 doesn't mean you can be good or informed about the game. I know people who've played this game since 05 and think Illusionary Weaponry is better than Warrior DPS. Don't go buzzin' about it.

I would know that in an instant and I didn't do my posting here I did it with most of the other beta testers and Alpha testers.I know what happened in beta and what skills were like.Don't start this with me Tyla as I see you are 06 have have the same title as me I wonder how that cam about oh to much posting as I read 6 or 8 posts in a thread like the one Ping your build.

I tried this with my Ele with 16 in Earth and couldn't keep it up using Glyph of Swiftness.I can't view that as possibly FF won't let me.I edit my posts.

Selket · Jun 25, 2008, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel

it;s only money. not even real money. it doesn;t matter. money is nothing.

you know.. it;s a virtual economy. if the price of ecto's goes down, then there is less wealth in the community, so therefore, prices should actually go down. ie. someone selling kuunavang for 100K + 50e will now have to sell for 100K because no one will have enough money becase ectos will be only 1k. get my drift?

countries do it all the time.. they raise interest rates so people with loans will not spend all their money.. therefore less wealth in the community and hence keep inflation and lower prices.

think about it logically. if price of ectos go down... then price of item X will also go down.

No they don't, they stay the same or go up, tonic prices have been going up due to ecto being devalued.

[DE] · Jun 25, 2008, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I would know that in an instant and I didn't do my posting here I did it with most of the other beta testers and Alpha testers.I know what happened in beta and what skills were like.Don't start this with me Tyla as I see you are 06 have have the same title as me I wonder how that cam about oh to much posting as I read 6 or 8 posts in a thread like the one Ping your build.

Post counts and registration dates matter. PERIOD

Right?

Amirite?

Amidoinitrite?

Sniper22 · Jun 25, 2008, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjeng

Play the xunlai tournament house each month. Free cash.

I wouldn't like to see it nerfed. I love the low ecto prizes. 4.3k at the merchant yesterday. w00t. Now just make those Zaishen keys rise again, and I'll have Obsi armor on ALL my characters soon mwuhahahaahaa!
Now all we need is something to easily farm shards...

Well ya thats the problem, fow is supposed to be the highest "elite armor". Now that gets taken away when ectos are now easily farmable.

Shawn The Divine · Jun 25, 2008, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

Post counts and registration dates matter. PERIOD

Right?

Amirite?

Amidoinitrite?

Clearly your Oct 05 join date means you're a far more important poster than either of those two, and even myself!

I wholeheartedly support this new 'join dates are srs bsns' notion.

Arkantos · Jun 25, 2008, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Friar Khan

I vote to change Chaos Plains make it harder to solo, as others have already mentioned.

Perma-SF adds an interesting PvE gameplay option that I don't mind staying

Chaos Plains has been around since Prophecies. The difficulty level of it is fine, and it should not be changed due to a farm.

Shadow form on the other hand, was an unnecessary buff. It was a powerful farming skill before it was buffed. I also fail to see how it makes PvE gameplay any more interesting. Personally, I don't find being invincible fun at all.

Quote:

Post counts and registration dates matter. PERIOD

Right?

Amirite?

Amidoinitrite?

Of course. You're more important than me because you've been around longer. /wrist

Oh, I'm more important than shawn, that makes me slightly happier.

Trinity Fire Angel · Jun 25, 2008, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I would know that in an instant and I didn't do my posting here I did it with most of the other beta testers and Alpha testers.I know what happened in beta and what skills were like.Don't start this with me Tyla as I see you are 06 have have the same title as me I wonder how that cam about oh to much posting as I read 6 or 8 posts in a thread like the one Ping your build.

I tried this with my Ele with 16 in Earth and couldn't keep it up using Glyph of Swiftness.I can't view that as possibly FF won't let me.I edit my posts.

ummm... 20% enchanting mod plz. GoS then do Obsidian flesh. it;s only attainable at 16 earth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by selket

No they don't, they stay the same or go up, tonic prices have been going up due to ecto being devalued.

that's cause they are traded in ectos. the real price is the same if not less. trade in keys instead. something being worth more ectos does not mean it is worth more

ANET; If you are reading this. IF YOU NERF THIS BUILD, THEN A LARGE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WILL MAKE A VERY LARGE PROFIT OVERNIGHT. THE PRICE IN ECTO WILL GO THRU THE ROOF. THIS WILL NOT BE FAIR TO THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY WHO HAVE NOT BEEN EXPLOITING THIS BUILD.

Arkantos · Jun 25, 2008, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

ANET; If you are reading this. IF YOU NERF THIS BUILD, THEN A LARGE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WILL MAKE A VERY LARGE PROFIT OVERNIGHT. THE PRICE IN ECTO WILL GO THRU THE ROOF. THIS WILL NOT BE FAIR TO THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY WHO HAVE NOT BEEN EXPLOITING THIS BUILD.

So you're saying don't change the build because not everyone has used it in the month it's been around?

Laugh out loud.

Ecto will most likely go back to 5.5k each, at trader. The demand is going to say the same, while the supply is going to go back to pre-shadow form buff. Ecto may be higher for a few days or so, but that's fine. Also, people making a profit isn't a problem at all.

Selket · Jun 25, 2008, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel

that's cause they are traded in ectos. the real price is the same if not less. trade in keys instead. something being worth more ectos does not mean it is worth more

urrite, autos could be had for 130e 2 weeks ago without much effort and now even though there are more in the game, they sell for 100k + 150e, just check the latest sale in high end.

585k~ two weeks ago vs 640k, totally the same.

Trinity Fire Angel · Jun 25, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selket

urrite, autos could be had for 130e 2 weeks ago without much effort and now even though there are more in the game, they sell for 100k + 150e, just check the latest sale in high end.

585k~ two weeks ago vs 640k, totally the same.

i can;t actually see how you came up with your figures for autos. they don;t compute. 130e does not = 585k. like when? let me just guess that they were 100k + 130e and now are 100k + 150e?

anyone can find examples to fit their own arguments for and against. if someone is selling something high-end for more... then they are just being opportunist and not adjusting their prices for real-world ecto prices.

let me check this. 5.5k ecto vs 4k ecto 2weeks later. therefore

(a) 130 ecto @ 2 weeks ago = 715k
(b) 150 ecto @ now = 600k

that seems to be 115k less to me

or were they 5k before the buff?

(a) 130 ecto @ 5k = 650k
(b) 150 ecto @ 4k = 600k

that is still 50k cheaper.

even if you take 130e vs 100K+150e now going by 5.5k ecto price

(a) 130 ecto @ 2 weeks ago = 715k
(b) 100k + 150 ecto @ now = 700k

still cheaper now.

PS. don;t take on an honours degree Applied Scientist with high disctinction in majors for Maths, Physics, and Chemistry.

Selket · Jun 25, 2008, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel

1. i am saying that the economy will right itself when favour runs out. too many people have 24/hr access right now. let the market adjust it;self. no favour and kiddies go back to skool in 2 months... that should be just fine

2. all those people who bought ectos at 3.5k on sunday will be able to double their money overnight. ie. i bought 300k of ecto, sold at 4.2k and bought back again at 3.8k. what about all those people who have like a mill gold? yeah... they stand to make a HUGE profit.

So according to you if they nerf SF, they make a huge profit, and if they don't the economy will right itself thereby ectos go up and they make a huge profit, if not bigger because they'll have more time to farm ectos and still constantly be able to?

O ok?

Arkantos · Jun 25, 2008, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel

1. i am saying that the economy will right itself when favour runs out. too many people have 24/hr access right now. let the market adjust it;self. no favour and kiddies go back to skool in 2 months... that should be just fine

2. all those people who bought ectos at 3.5k on sunday will be able to double their money overnight. ie. i bought 300k of ecto, sold at 4.2k and bought back again at 3.8k. what about all those people who have like a mill gold? yeah... they stand to make a HUGE profit.

Favor will come back. It's not going to be forever, but it's going to come back. Also, hello UW scrolls.

Don't be mad because people are making money, be mad because you didn't take the chance to. Again, people making profit isn't a problem. Remember what happened with zaishen keys? They went from 2k each to 6k each.

Trinity Fire Angel · Jun 25, 2008, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Favor will come back. It's not going to be forever, but it's going to come back. Also, hello UW scrolls.

Don't be mad because people are making money, be mad because you didn't take the chance to. Again, people making profit isn't a problem. Remember what happened with zaishen keys? They went from 2k each to 6k each.

oh i am not mad or angry. i just wish people would see a sane point of view that money doesn;t matter. special weapons don;t matter and armour does;t matter. it only matters to those people who buy them.

eg. in my eyes, if i see FOW armour i couldn;t care less. if i see a mini polar bear i think "cool. nice mini". i don;t even care who the owner is. focus is on the bear. i see someone with chaos gloves or rank 12 in HA and i think, that;s nice. but i don;t idolise them.

so, the price ectos or how much money people have in the game or what items they can show off really doesn;t matter to me. it may matter to the people who had to work for them or buy them online with gold sellers or who bought that guild with the gold trim or whatever... but it certainly doesn;t matter to me and i am presuming it doesn;t matter to others as well.

because this game age ranges from 12+ to 70yo, there are many different views on what the game is to many people.

personally when people show off in their flashy porsche or show off their big rich expensive house, i couldn;t care less. sadly, this is something that the late 70's and the 1980's has done to people in this now capitalistic consumer society. it;s just a factor of social conditioning that we have all been brainwashed into thinking that new, flashy things are better than older things. buy this new ipod today, get this new mini, be a status symbol amongst your peers.

that is why the price of ectos and this farming build no longer matter. but that is my opinion and mine alone.

edit; actually i just gave myself a reason why nerfs and buffs do not really matter at all. heck. leave Anet to make the decisions on their own game. they own it, they can do what they like. there is no point arguing on this forum to convince Anet what to do or not to do.... i argue here so that i may help enlighten others to see thru the illusions.

Rexsis Kai · Jun 25, 2008, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Just reverse the BUFF to SF, the price of ecto's will certainly go up, but will level off soon enough, like before the buff. Also it annoys me when all anyone wants to do is make an SF Sin and farm ecto's over and over, I get that it is insanely easy do to the invincibility of the build, but to me if there is no challenge to farming a spot then why farm it, sure there are other near god like builds out there but atleast they take a little more skill then spamming GoS - DP - SF over and over, while throwing out offensive skills/spells... very dull, plus playing a sin is sooo boring to me that, getting one ready to farm UW is an impossible task for me.

So ANet please, just remove the buff to the skill, or give all other classes a god mode buff, heh???

Selket · Jun 25, 2008, 02:28 AM // 02:28

They were 4.5k two weeks ago.

Ups.

And if you think money doesn't matter why do you justify that shadow form shouldn't be nerfed because people would make money off of the nerf?

What.

Arkantos · Jun 25, 2008, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Oh, money doesn't matter now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel

THIS WILL NOT BE FAIR TO THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY WHO HAVE NOT BEEN EXPLOITING THIS BUILD.

If money doesn't matter, I guess it doesn't matter that the rest of the community didn't make money. People making profit from the ecto doesn't matter, either.

So, does money matter, or does it not? Make up your mind, please.